Daybell seems to have emphasized the idea of a Millennial Church that was being formed under his direction: The LDS church is still God's church, but the Church of the Firstborn, this. In front of my eyes. Like Lehi who partook of the fruit of the tree of life and who immediately wanted to share it with his family, the fruits of the doctrine have been delicious to me, and I have also wanted to share it. My second Temple Marriage was to a man who had spiritual gifts, such as seeing, hearing, and speaking to those beyond the veil. Other saints (W.W. Phelps) were blessed to act in Trinities (or Presidencies of worlds). (And there are multiple forms - the form of being human, the form of being Jewish, the form of being a prophet, etc. I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). If youve not yet read Angie Fenimores book Beyond the Darkness, I highly recommend it. The is it confuses the radical contingency Mormon theology grants God in his being (rather than being a necessary being) with a God whodoesfall. MARIA, Your email address will not be published. Unfortunately, the divine version of the doctrine has not, and may not soon receive the proper attention and audience it deserves. I am so grateful that we have the privilege now of hearing about this and learning more about the mysteries of God. It also appears to be welcomed and seriously considered among others of Thats a great question, Diane, and an important thing to define. It "feels" more true to me than most of Christianity's "one and done" model. I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. This doctrine tastes delicious to me, and I glory in my God for His omniscience and almighty power to bring about our salvation and exultation in wonder and mysterious ways. You had to have been proven, and earned this Title. Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." I have always know it to be true, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have never doubted it, no, not even for a second. There is always hope in Christ. It is a fairly new idea to me but seems entirely plausible. Peace, enlightenment, and hope are wonderful gifts. This understanding of Multiple Probations, has validated and set my soul free of the ignorance. version of the doctrine has been aired publicly, I am concerned that too many I suppose our use of the term doctrine is meant to be somewhat generic. Verlan. I have learned for Write a discussion post in which you do the following: Write a summary of the innovative idea that includes the following: A description of the innovation you chose. Multiple Mortal Probations Article - LDS Freedom Forum In words borrowed of the symbol of the baptism we will lay down our old body to receive a new one. specifics with others. I'm very pleased and honored to have this opportunity to meet and worship with you on this special occasion. In D&C 132:55 where the Lord is speaking of Joseph Smith he says, and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundred-fold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. It appears to me that children, and crowns of eternal lives are two different things. . When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. I've read a couple of interesting books on reincarnation/multiple mortal probations and I actually really like the idea. (Some received only Godhood.) we are saviors in a derived sense in which we preach the gospel. I love how Heavenly Fathers plan for his children is so loving and allows us to learn and grow in our own way and at our own pace. So, the basis of this conclusion is baseless. 2:43 p.m. John Thomas is conducting cross . If learning, progression, and the development of the soul is the reason for life, then I don't see how that is possible with just one life time. They witness to the same insights I have also had on the matter. [6] Ensign, October 2017, 64-71. May the Lord bless you! We have had two grandsons and a nephew commit suicide in their teens. Multiple Mortal Probations - The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ Others feel if it were Her experience helps to counter some of the false beliefs we have about suicide. The "True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days" down in Manti headed by James Harmstrom (who died in 2013), teaches or taught this doctrine along with plural marriage. 10 Crazy Little-Known Rules of Mormon Life - Listverse Elena, thank you for sharing your experience. Heber C. Kimball then did the same to Brigham Young, i.e., ordained him to The Godhead. It is time to live in faith not fear. Interesting, interpretation. Kim, that is a very insightful point that would seem to be a witness Of truth hidden in plain sight that if reincarnation is a false doctrine, that there must be an opposite, which I feel my spirit was first introduce to in the temple. This implication is emphasized by JS' teachings on identifying angels vs. evil spirits (found in D&C), which he taught on multiple occasions, maybe 5 or 6 times, before and after the Nauvoo endowment had been administered. Now the doctrine of multiple probations brings me great peace. Ok so if we are going to be Christs of other worlds then do we have to go through all the suffering Jesus went through in Gethsemane and on the cross? I realized it was up to me to ask, seek, knock, learn and apply with or without him. Elena, I hope you feel the sincerity of my heart when I say, I hear you! It boggles my mind the intricacies of the plan and yet how simple it is! I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father, so that he obtains kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt his glory, so that Jesus treads in his tracks to inherit what God did before; it is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said. I do not condemn those who feel this way. Hallelujah! I disagree, believe that most LDS believe as I do, that Eternal Lives means eternal increase and would like to address that in this position paper. Over the past few years it has been my privilege, as well as many who I know, to have naturally and individually come upon the doctrine recently called Multiple Probations. Multiple Mortal Probations Article - Page 11 - LDS Freedom Forum LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations. Thanks for sharing your own experience, which is validating and comforting to know the Lord is answering many of His childrens questions! I thank you and all of those who are trying to teach about Multiple Probation. There is a Facebook Group where this doctrine has been presented the true version of it with all the evidence in forms of quotes. Thanks for commenting. What surprised me was the fact that it resonated with something in me even as it was a total new doctrine to me. I am he. . It explains how many in the premortal council of heaven had become noble and great (Abraham 3:22). The thrill is gone. To be associated with James Allen is an honor for me. For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. That this doctrine will promote casualness and laziness. Joseph Smith and multiple mortal probations - Reincarnation Forum Something that has always been there but was never realized by me. We aren't taught "Multiple Mortal Probation" in the Church because it is not true. Lidia, hearing you received your own witness is so validating. Please consider subscribing in order to receive these updates. Its like the chorus which follows the verse, giving the song power and unity. the doctrine that has circulated these recent events. Regarding Chad and Lori's "multiple probations" - Reddit Just after the section discussing the Re. It is uplifting to the soul and brings me closer to Christ. I love how this is turning into a string of testimonials. Thanks for sharing Eric! In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. What did Jesus do? They also vicariously ordained Joseph and Hyrum to do the same. kindness from cruelty, and so on. 9:27. continue in the path until the end of the day of probation, 2 Ne. Following is the summary of the January 1846 Nauvoo Temple Record from the Multiple Mortal Probations document: Brigham Young laid hands on Heber C. Kimball and "Ordained him to the Godhead, and that he would act as the Savior to a world or worlds." Among early Christians and LDS the doctrine of multiple mortal probations was taught. From the above we can imply that JS believed that all Gods had served as Christs, that all heirs of the Celestial kingdom would serve as Christs as part of their progression from exaltation to exaltation, and that the Holy Ghost would also serve as a Christ. I thought I had reached the bottom of the rabbit holeI guess it goes deeper still. 8 of the Most Bizarre Mormon Beliefs - Purpose in Christ The sources are quoted from boap.org and the MF0081 "Multiple Mortal Probations: LDS Related Quotes" document found at mormonpolygamydocuments.org. He showed us the way how to ascend. are so advanced in their abilities and gifts from birth, such as music, art, I don't think the Laub quote you give suggests Laub read the KFD in terms of MMP either. That is so very sad but I am thankful for that. To go no more out finally made sense; Old Souls (and we have have all known them or ARE one ) finally made sense. At best it just means the Holy Ghost doesn't have a body and will one day, will die, and will be resurrected. Libraries. How does this concept coexist with the idea of eternal families? There is an answer. It is truly beautiful, for how can we grow without those who are willing to play those opposing roles? despite my human weakness. Also, I didn't mention it in the OP, but I believe Michael Quinn documents an influential relationship between JS and Alexander Neibaur, who was a convert from Jewish Cabala and who related reincarnation-like Cabala sourced ideas in a couple of Times and Seasons articles during the Nauvoo era. Thank you for this essay, you have a way of expressing your thoughts and knowledge so eloquently and with so much clarity. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. You know Eric its interesting to me how much i have loved James Allen for so many years and how you were also inspired by him. I have been a member of the church my entire life, and it has been my life. Though I was a member of the church since I was young, I can relate to your experience. Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered - amazon.com Thank you sincerely for sharing this with us! I would comment but feel it is too sacred. Melanie Gibb Says Chad Daybell Was Doing 'Satan's Work' | Law & Crime Probation, Probationary - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Yet the words of Isaiah, which were so plain and simple to Nephi, tend to mystify the Latter-day Saints. I love our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know He loves me. Ever since first hearing the doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations, I have felt peace in this knowledge. We know that there is opposition in all things. Agency took on a whole new meaning. Multiple mortal probations - MormonWiki.org Im so grateful for you, Greg, Matt and Julie for your conviction and witnesses of the Truth! In the Nauvoo period, Joseph Smith began believed in and secretly taught something akin to reincarnation. Thank you for raising this important point Diane. He recorded, "But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies for the Saviour Says the work that my father did do i also & those are the works he took himself a body & then laid down his life that he might take it up again." What problem do you think the innovation was trying to solve? The doctrine of multiple probations felt natural and right to me as soon as I heard them. That is there is a certain form that Elijah participates in as part of being a person. It lasted several weeks. And a gate symbolizes a new aera of time. It felt right to me but the opposition was so strong and vociferous I proceeded with caution. Thank you Kim. Because LDS leaders sometimes refer to this life, before our death and eventual resurrection, as our "mortal probation," based on the scriptural term "probationary state," Daybell and Vallow call their belief in reincarnation "multiple mortal probations." Rowe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after . I did not go seeking a new doctrine. Denver Carlos Snuffer Jr. is a Utah lawyer, an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and claims to be a "revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement," a spiritual movement in schism with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. Thanks for standing up and witnessing even amongst the risk of severe persecution. The doctrine of multiple probations again increases my understanding of eternal lives. I said, Wait a little. I did not reject it, but I could not understand it.[a] This is one of my favorite examples of how to receive new concepts with an open heart. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . I converted to the church in my early twenties when i received a witness of the book of mormon and of Joseph Smith. Some have said that it has to do with having more children and posterity. consider to be a blessed gift from God. So beautiful and strong words that I saw citated by you and Greg this dynamic of dying and be born again. It makes wonderful sense when you consider how merciful and how loving our Savior Jesus Christ is especially when we are gifted with agency both pre and post mortality. I believe even to the point that if I see an extra dark effort to oppose something then it must be very significant. For example, Apostle Heber C. Kimball compared several days of a man continuously working on a project to several successive probations of the same person working on a project: That seems a bit of a stretch. This LDS doctrine of celestial kingdoms relies heavily on the Bible passage in John 14:2, "In my Father's house there are many mansions," as proof that these kingdoms exist in heaven. This doctrine also brings peace to my soul and increases my love and respect for our Heavenly Father and Mother and our Savior, Jesus Christ. That phrase indeed feels appropriate for the version of At one point I had to stop believing any thing he said to me of a spiritual nature and this set me on my path to get my own inspiration of the true doctrine. My heart is full . 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him ALL MIGHT BE SAVED whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves ALL THE WORKS OF HIS HANDS, EXCEPT THOSE SONS OF PERDITION who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. As I pondered the gravity of that situation seeing the effects of disobedience in other families and in my own I prayed asking Heavenly Father how he could let so many of His children fall and be cast off. Multiple Mortalities I like cats better. Adam I too grew up knowing that Reincarnation was/ is a false doctrine, but also grew up in a culture that taught that those who made mistakes and took their guilt from said mistakes to their grave without repentance or forgiveness were eternally assigned to a lower Kingdom of Glory, only to be visited by friends and family members in higher kingdoms. Kalai, mahalo for visiting and sharing your views. we are talking about multiple mortal probations that are all human.] It's kind of like how in our times people will say stuff like, "What if the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother?" 2.3M+ acres, 1 in every ~550 acres of private land. could not look upon God, except hisgloryshould come upon me, and I The Savior is crucial to the plan, and only He is the way back no matter how many probations we have had. . "And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. Any comments would be helpful. Seems to me that there is as much evidence for this reincarnation doctrine as there is for the Heavenly Mother doctrine. "And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. multiple lives, which to me is practical and actually very simplistic in Mahalo for bringing this to light! However, Laub didn't only understand that the Holy Ghost would serve as a Christ (more on that later), but he also implied that JS' King Follet Sermon taught that all who achieved Godhood would pass through the same. What seems to be missing is the escape clause to such a definitive end. Joseph Smith and Multiple Mortal Probations Some say that they dont believe in do overs. The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS . It gives context for the possibility that aborted and miscarried babies, or even inexperienced humans who leave the world prematurely can still have a shot at life and prove themselves (Abraham 3:25). Until I meet you. Erika, these are great questions. It has been reported by those who knew the first prophet of the church that he was at least at one. Some people have said that the church teaches this doctrine and that it is called Eternal Lives (plural). Perhaps Im misunderstanding. Maybe Shirly Mclaine was right. Thanks for sharing your witness. A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell Some may ask why I or anyone else have been privileged to learn of these doctrines while others have not. I feel motivated to try harder and do better. However we have to then deal with the problem of Joseph being well versed on such matters yet somehow not getting the whole point of these texts. thousands) of people I have personally heard from in emails, within the LDS Is she the main source? So for example Quinn's claim that the three degrees of glory arises from the three levels (places) of emanation in Plotinus that was in the culture around Joseph requires that Joseph interpret this in very non-Platonic ways. I should clarify that I approach this issue froma historical perspective. It indicates, "Click to perform a search". This could easily explain what Joseph Smith was inferring when he said the following Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. As for the sealing question, I certainly believe that sealings are very important. Elder Bruce R. McConkie. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints When I first came upon Julies podcasts and heard the messages, including MMP. We are all blessed! February 28, 2017 in General Discussions. End-Times Visionary Julie Rowe Excommunicated - Wheat & Tares I believe that the greatest truths will be met with the greatest opposition. What happened was that I would hear a name in my mind and immediately a person on the other side of the girl would introduce themselves and then they would thank me for helping them in their trialed, this was not for 1 probationary earth but many. Once this one is done, I will be satisfied with whatever modest reward it qualifies me for. This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. There is just too much to experience for once to be enough. A blog from a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It would be very helpful to me, if you could share scripture references for multiple probations. 33:9. this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare, Alma 12:24. a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God, Alma 42:4. your days of probation are past, Hel. Latter-day Saints of Jesus Christ Discussing Last Days Prophecies 'Onewhoiswatching' claims Two different 'Remnant Groups' - LDS Freedom I do not hold a I cant mention this topic to my family, friends, or post about it on any platform, without incredible hurtful persecution. Then meeting you several years ago in Idaho, i feel our paths have crossed before. Multiple Mortal Probations Part II - Blogger The Mormon scriptures clearly state that meat "should be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.". Multiple Probations answers that question. May we find Him now. Ive had some of those same thoughts. 9. May I share my own experience that has allowed me to know and discern truth of such doctrine as MMP. and Eve could not know good from evil without partaking of both, which is God bless you for speaking truth. Your recent podcasts and inspired book, Multiple Probations, also shed so much light on this topic and are the sources of which I seek to learn more. Heavenly Father is very loving too help them through their next probation. honestly I never thought of this doctrine before I crossed your podcast. Thanks for responding! I felt all three reading your post tonight. I believe that I am a child of a God, a child of a loving Heavenly Father and Mother with a divine heritage. That is they aren't to be taken mystically or platonically but in a materialist/historicist kind of 'literalism.' Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) Eternal Progression, and Progression between Kingdoms The Flag of the Kingdom of God Apostasy Unchangeability of the Doctrines of Salvation and Exaltation Fallibility or Infallibility of Men Appointed as Church Leaders Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy Im grateful you shared your experience here! Thank you for sharing! James J. Strang is probably one of the lesser-known claimants in the succession crisis following the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, the first president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintssometimes inadvertently called the Mormon Church. Dangerous Doctrine? - Doctrinal Essays I can seeJoseph Smith easily deriving reincarnation from several passages in the New Testament. Great questions and important ones to ponder on. I have done as the Savior Himself declared to ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you (Luke 11:9). I am forever grateful to you both and for your ability to enlighten ME!! Multiple Mortal Probations Part II Get link Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email Other Apps November 16, 2018 . And what is our test score? They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving fathers heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain.. In January of 1846, just over a year and a half after the death of JS, Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball ordained each other to act as a savior. I also believe that they want the best of everything for me and that I can become like them. This group gives us a safe platform in which we discuss the trials, tribulations, prophecies and signs of the last dispensation of which we live in. Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. Given that the content of JS' revelations usually coincide with questions and subjects he is interested in at the time, my best guess is that this interpretation of 88 is probably a stretch. I welcome it! Satan will do everything he can to create doubt and to try and destroy all truth. Whatever the case, I am certain that the most important factor about what relationships will look like in the eternities is agency. I hold the knowledge sacred, personal to my own covenant widowsmitereport.wordpress. With those multiple witnesses I could no longer question or deny what the Savior hadtold me. The concept of "Multiple Mortal Probation" would be similar to the teaching of reincarnation, both of which are false doctrines. I highly recommend Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered by Eric Smith and Greg Christiansen, edited by Julie Rowe. I will ponder about it and ask Heavenly Father. never considered the possibility of living multiple lives, many are judging the In 1786, a guy named John Zephaniah Holwell published a tract called "Dissertation on the Origin of Intelligent Beings, and on Divine Providence".I recommend it to anybody curious about the ideas of a premortal existence, war in heaven, plan of salvation, opposition in all things, infant baptism, free agency, multiple mortal probations, etc. God bless you. May you find Him now. He was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Widow's Mite presents, an overview of Church land ownership in the USA. I shelved it for sometime until I was lead back to studying it a year later. However, my understanding of this doctrine and how it works creates the opposite reaction. Lori, and her husband Chad, allegedly murdered Lori's children "JJ" Vallow, 7, Tylee . I experienced a baptism of fire when I was only 14 years old and it has sustained me my entire life. The purpose was not to claim that it is the doctrine of the Church, as we have no authority in that regard. This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. For some of us, the doctrine came along at a time we had True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days , Exactly Geri! This concept found me. One must review and agree to the rules of the group, established due to a few that join just to create contention and kick against the pricks. I love truth wherever it is found. are now throwing the baby out with the bathwater in what has been deemed a Terri, when I first learned the doctrine I instantly knew of its truthfulness and then went into a pretty strong state of depression for some of the same reasons youve mentioned.
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lds church multiple probations